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Zune V2 Is The Next Microsoft Bob

Man, I sure screwed up when I upgraded my Zune to version 2, and it is too late to go back.  The Zune firmware upgrade really isn't too bad, but the Zune V2 software is totally useless.  Well, not totally, because it can sync your media from your PC to your Zune.  But, if you want to organize your media collection, well, you will have to find something else.  Me, I have a very large music based media collection (over 50GB and growing), and I like to organize my collection, my way.  Which is why I can't stand iTunes and its authoritarian style.  Yes, it works for the brain dead folks that don't organize their collections, and it looks like Microsoft took a page right out of the Apple handbook (and even made it worse).

So, what's missing?  Well, if you had used WMP or Zune to edit your MP3 ID tags, well, that is (almost) gone.  About the only thing you can do is change the song name.  And you can't even edit most of the ID tags using Vista!  Totally useless.  Then, there is the "heart" rating system, which is basically a 3 star system.  What was wrong with the tried and true 5 star system?  Now I have the choices of not rated, hated, or loved.  Umm, I need more than 3 choices.  And the most missed option, the auto playlist.  The auto playlist was paritially bust in Zune 1 and WMP 11, since there was a null date bug (if you wanted to listen to song you hadn't heard in X number of days, and the song had never been played, the query would return the song because the date last played is null), but there was work-a-rounds.  But, auto playlist was cut from Zune 2.2 in order to ship (seems like people don't use this option or didn't complain enough to get it up the priority chain).

Don't even get me started on the dumded down UI.  I couldn't figure out how to force it to rescan my folders, since, if you add music to your music folders and Zune isn't running, it didn't know it happened, so it isn't smart enough to look for changes.  Turns out you have to drag the folder onto the Zune software and it will add it too the library, if it doesn't already exist (that part they got right).  Actually I kind of like this feature, now that I know it.  It is faster than forcing WMP or Zune v1 to resync.  The problem is that it isn't intuitive.  But, if the tags are wrong, you are screwed, because never Zune or Vista gives you the ability to fix them (see the early comment).

And then there is the still missing Software Developers Kit (SDK).  Microsoft is really missing the boat on this.  Get the hobbyists involved in making your product better.  Obviously, you can't figure out how to write a good media library, so why not let the hobbyist go to it.  Wasn't that part of the beauty of WinAmp, all the customizations?  I so wanted to write a LINQ provider for the new Zune v2 software.  Now, I just want Microsoft to open the Zune communication API so someone can write a real media library AND be able to sync it to the Zune device.  The hardware (and firmware) isn't bad, but the client side software, totally useless.  How I wish for the old ARCHOS days, when you could mount a MP3 player as an external harddrive and you were not tied to a proprietary, crappy media library.  What was even better, with MusicMatch, you could keep the hard drive's media library database on the drive.

Update - A major part of the problem with the new Zune Software is that is 100% focused on organizing media collections purchased from an online store.  If you still buy CDs (like me), or create your own media files (like me), this software isn't designed for you.  I can understand where they were coming from when they designed it, but it was definitely written for a different market segment than the one I'm in.  I know I'm not in the majority, but I know there are others out there just like me.  I had my hopes that this upgrade would help make the Zune better for me, instead it just made it harder to use. 

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Published Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:55 PM by donxml

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Joe said:

Zune looks nice and its new functions are great but iPod still is the best. Nothing compares to the iPod interface and design, although Zune really seems like a good product. Have you seen this iPod Touch ad made by an user? http://www.weshow.com/us/p/21278/home_made_ipod_touch_ad It shows in less than 30 seconds why Zune is good but an iPod is an iPod. Period.
November 14, 2007 8:02 AM

Jay said:

Dang... You Codebetter guys are harsh Just kidding Don... Glad to know about the Zune2. I had considered it as my next player. Now I might wait for you to report that it got better (I wouldn't have switched for a bit anyways as I have a Napster account that I pre-paid for the year). Dev Theo
November 14, 2007 8:03 AM

donxml said:

Don't get me wrong, I love the Zune hardware and the firmware.  It is that I can't stand the new Zune software.  As for iPods, I hate the iTunes software.  iTunes was worse than Zune 1.0, but at least you could by a decent replacement for iTunes.  You can't do that for Zune, and will not be able to until MSFT opens the communication API.

I'll follow up this post with what I consider must have attributes for a modern media library application.  And believe me, no one is doing it right, yet.

November 14, 2007 9:05 AM

RP said:

I share your exact same thoughts, Don. Looks like MS chose to rewrite the Zune PC software and ended up spending more time on the bling rather than features.
November 14, 2007 10:12 AM

JoeW said:

Agreed with those points. I blogged about the new rating system - but I didn't realize they pulled the autoplaylist feature too. Thing is, even if you're a subscription user from the market place the software is still broken. I used to download a load of music and use auto playlists to show new 'unrated' music. Rating music would flag it as being listened to - and the decision whether to keep it or not. You simply can't do that now. Re: SDK - isn't the GUI just like MCE, in that under the hood it's either WMP or ZMP? I need to dig around OLEView for a while. And why the heck isn't it written in WPF!
November 14, 2007 11:42 AM

Fernando said:

I couldn't agree more about the software "upgrade?" "DOWNGRADE" is more appropriate. Way less useful for I bet more folks than not who prefer to roganzie things "their way." I really miss the tag edit feature. Fortunately there are third party atg editors available but that means you lave to jump throughe xtra hops to accomplsih this. The old screens were much easier to use than the new ones.
November 14, 2007 3:13 PM

Shindigo said:

I would be curious to know more about your objections to iTunes. I find it to be the most 'programmable' of all the librarian/players. I have over 100Gb of music ripped from CDs and I've found that as long as you tell iTunes not to organize your libaray, you can organize it any way you want to. Make sure Settings>Advanced>Let iTunes Organize... is not set. Oh, and don't use iTunes to rip, use CDex or ExactAudioCopy - and don't forget MP3Gain. The greatest strength of iTunes (for programming geeks) is smart playlists. The fact that these can be nested within each other makes practically any 'query' of the library possible. For example, my everyday playlist is an evenly distributed combination of 5 smart playlists: Unheard Tracks, the last 2000 tracks added to the lib (I have 25,000), Favorites (including select albums, select tracks, rating>4 stars), 'Again Soon' (a hand-picked list of tracks I want to hear more often), 'Least Recently Played' (the 500 tracks I listened to longest ago). I can also have this playlist split between two iPods and iTunes Party Shuffle with no overlap. So I won't hear the same song in the car (iPod) and again while I'm at work (iTunes). I use this playlist with my 30 Gb iPod Video, but honestly I'm finding that this playlist is so good I can get away with a 1Gb non-iPod player just as well. BTW, you can copy the contents of any iTunes playlist to a drive-based player simply by showing the tracks in the playlist, selecting all and dragging the contents to the drive. iTunes also has an API which I have used with .NET to create an album art screensaver. A great way to expose my kids to all the beautiful album art that has been made through the years. See my website for a free download.
November 16, 2007 6:58 AM

russ s said:

i totally agree with you on all counts. I'm glad i'm not crazy and that this really is the suckiest "upgrade" ever. i'll have to use mp3tag (freeware tagging software) and just overwrite my files. i miss the part that downloads album covers for you though. theres got to be some freeware out there that does that. maybe paste up some links?
November 16, 2007 9:10 AM

piro said:

editing ID3s isn't quite as nice as in WMP but is still easy. just go into list mode, rightclick what you want to change and click Edit. need to edit more stuff? add the column you need to the view. it's not quite as nice as having the tag editor, but it still works just fine. rescanning is simple but not obvious; if your player doesn't automatically find stuff you added to the scan folders, then go into settings and click the 'restore' button (restore songs deleted from collection, or something) and it will rescan. auto playlists weren't used by the majority of people. 5-star (6-level including unrated) rating system proved to be somewhat superfluous for the majority of people (how many songs did you ever rate 1-2 stars? personally if i don't like a song, chances are it's not in my library/collection.), but it seems the heart system (3-level) system isn't liked much either... guess they need to find a comfy in-between or rethink the rating system altogether.
November 25, 2007 10:30 PM

Jaron said:

I totally understand. Your points are very valid. The software to sync stinks. However, I really like my Zune's new interface. Another point I would like ot add to the dislikes, is that the Marketplace doesn't seem as user friendly. I liked seeing all the albums and their images. This doesn't work the same as it did before. Any idea how long it will tak them to come out with an update to their crappy player software?
November 30, 2007 1:12 PM

ginckgo said:

I assume you never really used iTunes from your opinion of it. I'm almost anal when it comes to organising my music into playlists etc. I use a combination of the 5 star ratings and keywords to create dozens of smart playlists for any mood I'm in. It appears that MS makes a lot of noise about supporting users' choice and then cripples the software.
December 4, 2007 6:44 PM

boomer said:

im looking too get a new mp3 player but so lost on which too get the nano or the zune only cause i have a large collection of music on my comp and i dont know if i can put it on the zune with out haveing too buy something ?
December 12, 2007 5:07 AM

jonesy said:

hey Don, while I agree the new zne software is rather dumbed down, if you switch to the list view instead of the oh so pretty browse view you can edit pretty much everything albeit rather mundanely as it lacks even te basic remembering features of wmp11. and as for the rescan of folders-just go into the settings, pretend to add a folder, and it'll rescan everything. Yes, its not the best but it works better than the drag thing.
December 23, 2007 8:56 PM

Rob said:

I just bought a Zune 80 and really like it. I had a 60G iPod Video(5G) before this Zune but it was stolen and I needed to replace it. I wanted a mp3 player to hold all my music that had great sound. I think this Zune fits the bill plus it looks nice too. I liked the iPod interface and iTunes - they seem to get the new/novice user experience just right. Now I am an experienced user so this is not as important plus I have iTunes and my whole library( 30Gb) is MP3 so migrating to Zune is just drag and drop. Note I can count on one hand the number of songs I have purchased from iTunes. If this were not the case I would have bought another iPod. I do find the software from MS overly simplistic to the point where I only use it to Sync my iTunes collection, which it does this flawlessly. For tagging and maintenance iTunes wins. You could actually use other software other than iTunes but that is what I had. The Zune has many other things that the iPod does not. Wi-Fi, Larger Screen, Radio, better ergonomics( I think so ), sound quality, flash upgrades. Note the Zune 80 has no equalizer- the hardware is not there so it will never have an equalizer!
January 5, 2008 1:26 PM

Haggie said:

I'm so-so on both the Zune and iPod until they provide an open SDK to work with the best mp3 player and organizer (in my opinion) - Media Center from J. River.
April 19, 2008 7:43 PM

Dave C said:

I bought an 8GB Zune about 10 days ago and am still trying to figure out how to get it to pull my .mp3 stuff into it's software. The Zune itself works fine with the stuff that was installed on it when I initialized it. Like a few others who have posted here - I have my music organized the way I like it in various folders, etc. If anyone knows how I can get the Zune software to recognize folders on my PC - please let me know. Thanks. Also - the drag-and-drop does not allow me to drag from my Windows Explorer pane to the Zune software pane cus the Zune pane minimizes each time I select a folder from my PC. Any suggestions ? Dave C
May 3, 2008 3:57 PM

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About donxml

I’m an independent consultant, specializing in .Net solutions architecture, based out of New Jersey who also doubles as an evangelist for XML, Domain Driven Design, enterprise architecture and .Net. I do not work for Microsoft, the W3C or any other big company that you may know of (at least not yet). I’ve been an indie for over ten years, and although I’ve been tempted a couple times to take a job with companies like Microsoft, I’ve haven’t found something better than my current situation. I work mostly with the large pharmaceuticals that are based here in New Jersey, and usually find myself on long term contracts. Definitely not the prototypical indie consultant, but it lets me dedicate time to my non-income generating activities like the developer community stuff, plus financing open source projects like XPathmania and MVP-XML. If you would like to talk to me about doing some contract work, just contact me via the contact page. My rates vary widely, depending on lots of different variables, but mostly distance from Jersey, and type of work. Plus, I’ve been known to donate some of my code for various projects.
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